My reasons for hating the military

[unclehobart]

I have to think of the military as its own entity in the way that it was constructed. It is merely an extended arm of its civilian handlers. 80% of what they do comes down from orders of the national Congress and the Prez. Militaries do some ugly things to acheive the end result. Such results are rarely 'hugs and kisses' and always end up with someones blood being spilt and lives being shattered. That is just the nature of the universe. So long as the military isn't used to press and corral its citizenry with a tank on every street corner and random searches and detentions to control and promote a dictatorship .. something is at least going right. I'm not saying that the bad stuff should be overlooked... far from it. It just has to be taken in as part of a larger picture wherein we must recognize the faults and try to curtail them... for the second that we cease being vigilant in questioning our civilian and military leaders is when they can slowly seize control. Its an ugly, delicate balancing act.

Now insofar as where the general revenues and largess of the tresury goes... there is room for grand improvement all up and down the food chain. The waste and corruption is as thick as leaves on the trees.

 

[Mirlyn]

The waste and corruption is as thick as leaves on the trees.

...in the summer....

 

[Gonzo]

Corruption comes with the territory of any large goverment body. Find it &fix it. It'll reappear somewhere else. That is a never ending battle.

As far as the source money goes, it's clearly defined as an authorized expenditure as well as being one of our founding priciples, in the preamble.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I'd much rather have $2,000,000,000. bombers with nowhere to go than to have need of them & none to be found. Deterence is the greatest military weapon we have.

 

[kuulani]

my only thought on that is, why blow up the little land we have ... the US has lots of land on the continent it can blow up. go practice bombing somewhere else, not in my neighbor's yard.

 

[Nixy]

Ku'u: I so toally agree that they coud find better places to bomb

freako: I SO totally don't agree the states would be better off without a military. Of course they've done stupid stuff in the past! They'll do stupid stuff in the future too! People need to speak out to help bring light to the issues and help STOP stupid stuff. But, although some of the stuff REALLY sucks, like using the land in Hawaii to practice bombing, NOONE can say the the loses of such land are not in the BIG picture worth it. Yes, there are better options, NO I am NOT saying they should have bombed the land in Hawaii, BUT without a military do you think that what happened on 9/11 would have stopped there?? I don't think so! Without a Military there might not be a USA right now, and without a USA there prolly wouldn't be a Canada!

 

[Nixy]

Also, if you don't wanna pay taxes for a huge military then move somewhere else!

I'd love it if Canada could hold its own the way America can. I know that if anything ever happened to Canada we'd be FUCKED if we weren't on America's good side! I don't like violence but if violence comes looking for you then you have to beable to protect yoruself.

 

[Inkara1]

my only thought on that is, why blow up the little land we have ... the US has lots of land on the continent it can blow up. go practice bombing somewhere else, not in my neighbor's yard.

Actually, they have done quite a bit of that. Especially in Nevada and New Mexico.

 

[freako104]

Also, if you don't wanna pay taxes for a huge military then move somewhere else!

I'd love it if Canada could hold its own the way America can. I know that if anything ever happened to Canada we'd be FUCKED if we weren't on America's good side! I don't like violence but if violence comes looking for you then you have to beable to protect yoruself.

i happen to like it here. but i feel taxes can go to better things than military

 

[Gonzo]

Well Nixy, I'm pleasantly surprised, we agree on something.

freak, tattoo this to the inside of your eyelids until you get it

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Defense was & is our single most important fedeal role. Lots & lots & lots of money to new weapons & stronger, smarter soldiers means means fewer wars which means fewer deaaths from war. It's a cost saving measure.

Don't believe me? Compare:

Twin towers site
Rescue effort has become recovery process
US government officials have set the total cost of clearing the former World Trade Centre site and rebuilding the twin towers at $39bn, according to New York newspapers.

Dealership cost, including delivery & setup for a brand spanking new B2 Stealth Bomber is $20.Billion.

 

[Inkara1]

...add to that $39 billion the cost of the emergency response, the cost of the insurance payouts to all the companies that had office space in the twin towers and surrounding buildings, and the cost of the federal bailouts to the airline industry that would never have happened if 9/11 hadn't.

Eric, what do you propose our tax dollars go to instead?

 

[Tanis Half-Halo]

I've never heard of bikini island(Was it the one that this topic is based on?), nor the My Lai massacre, but the war in Iraq is not bad. We got rid of a dictator who was willing to use weapons on us, and made life there better. That is in no way bad. The cold war is as much Russia's problem as it was our's, and besides, it proved our superiority in combat. This, in turn, causes many to fear our might and not even try to attack us, which in turn saves us money. The military has done far more good than bad.

 

[unclehobart]

Bikini Atoll was where the US did its massive open air nuclear testing.

My Lai was a civilian massacre in Vietnam that became quite the public scandal.

 

[freako104]

hospitals,schools,emergency vehicles,police

 

[Gonzo]

Those are state budget items, not federal. And they are still fully funded (some federal tax dollars are stolen each year to pay for state budget items.)

 

[freako104]

i thougfht they were federally funded?

 

[Inkara1]

Nope. None of them are. Most hospitals are actually for-profit businesses. The ones that aren't are non-profit corporations or run by the county. The city police departments are paid for by taxes paid within that city. Some cities that can't afford a police force contract out to the county Sheriff's department. Still not federal. Same deal with the city fire departments. And those departments' budgets pay for their emergency vehicles. Ambulance services are also for-profit companies. And schools are paid for with city property taxes and state "average daily attendance" funding.

The only police the federal government pays for are the FBI, federal prison guards and the Secret Service. If those forces are beefed up, you still won't see more cops on the streets, and your run-of-the-mill crimes won't drop much at all.

 

[Nixy]

hospitals,schools,emergency vehicles,police

And even if they were federally funded they would be useless if there was no military because THERE WOULD BE NO UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

 

[freako104]

The us didnt have a military before it gained independence. the military then was pretty much farmers and such. we got our independence. we have been attacked in the past, but those were the only times we really needed the military. but even then with our technology do we need it since we can pretty much nuke everyine into teh ground?

 

[Mirlyn]

Bikini Atoll was where the US did its massive open air nuclear testing.

...and the major reason for using the Marshall Islands was to see what an aquatic detonation would do to ships and the like. They only did about 20-25 detonations there, as I remember, compared to the ~150 or so at the major test site in Nevada alone.

Check out Fallout: An American Nuclear Tragedy for more info.....an interesting and shocking read.

 

[greenfreak]

This site has some great information on how the people who inhabited the islands were forced to leave their homes, lied to, and moved around like cattle: http://www.bikiniatoll.com/