Sex, reproduction, etc etc...

fury

Administrator
Staff member
Why is it that something so basic and native to our instincts has lately received such bad vibes? It is one of the first things humans ever did on this planet and it is our only method of continuing the generations. So why does it seem so immoral to talk about such things?

Is it because of the teenage rebels that have sex and then the mother has an abortion because she's "not ready"? Is it because of the street prostitution that is rampant among the streets of many big cities?

What do you think has caused this totally natural process to become such a hush-hush topic, socially?
 
S

s4

Guest
I think it depends on who you talk to. There are certain religious groups such as the one headed by Pat Robertson that would like nothing better than to push their moral values off on the population. I think there is such a thing as decency that is pretty scarce these days. I believe there is nothing wrong with children that are conceived by a husband and wife. However, if some hooker gets pregnant and tries to dump her baby in a trash can to go get a junkie fix, there is something seriously wrong with that. Everyone has an opinion about sex and reproduction. It just that some are more vocal and try to push their values on other people than others are.

There are many single parents out there that try to do their best for their children. They go to work and barely keep their heads above water. They should be commended.

I don't think I answered your question very well, but that is what I think.
 

fury

Administrator
Staff member
I admire the single parents that are struggling to give their children the best life possible.

I think the main reason it's become socially unacceptable to discuss in most places is because all the people who don't take the responsibility of parenting that they were assigned when they grilled and the condom slipped/she stopped taking BC/etc etc, while they don't outnumber them, those people seem to be noticed and recognized more than the people who make genuine efforts to give their child(ren) the best life they can give them.

All too frequently, you see commercials on TV and/or pages in magazines that advertise boot camps/jail tours/detention centers for rebellious children.

Ever see any commercials or ads that go something like this: "Your child isn't spoiled. Your child doesn't have sex, is not a rebel, has good hygiene, good manners, a good attitude, good grades, likes to brush his/her teeth, and loves you very much. Damn, you're good!"

Of course, in reality, not every one of those things happen, but it's practically obvious, the difference between the child of an bad parent and the child of a good one. No offense intended to anybody at all, I'm just trying to illustrate my point.
 

fury

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry to hear that renny.

I am not intending to discriminate or offend anyone here, I just wanted to fire up a discussion and get some activity here for once, let alone any non-silliness activity.

Despite my post count and the majority of my posts being of this kind (silly, one worded, etc), I am a huge fan of discussions that provoke accessing of the brain and the heart.

I do think freedom is important, but there are some things that are a given, like taking responsibility of parenthood, and not calling my mother a bitch. (Long story)

I believe in freedom of life as well as freedom of choice, but when the two conflict, I prioritize freedom of life.
 

Gonzo

Infinitesimally Outrageous
Staff member
Drop the "single parents are heroes" crap.

A single parent is one who never bothered to marry the other parent of their child. Yet they had the baby & decided it was better to raise said child alone, instead of marrying the other parent or giving them up for adoption to a 2 parent family. ALL CHILDREN BENEFIT FROM BOTH PARENTS!!! There are, of course, exceptions to this but don't make the exception the rule.

There are case study after case study that show the tremendous advantages to having both parents, living under the same roof & with the same surname, raise their child. Sorry all you super-moms out there, no matter how wonderful you are, you are not a dad. and vice versa.

There is a reason behind this; moms provide a loving, nurturing, caring balance to the more often stoic, protective nature of fathers. ie-when they fall down & get a boo-boo, moms kiss it & make it better, dads pick them up, dust them off & say go do it again.

So please, no more invoking heroism upon a group that doesn't deserve such. Save that for the parents who lost a spouse through no fault of their own.
 

Spirit

Kissy Goddess
Originally posted by Gonzo
Drop the "single parents are heroes" crap.

Whoa! Ease up, there. Are you not aware of the circumstance from which the admiration comes from?

A single parent is one who never bothered to marry the other parent of their child.

Bothered? Gonz, it's not a matter of "bothering". Unfortunately, it's not as easily summed up as that. There are many circumstances that surround each case. In an idealistic world, all people are perfect and single parenthood would not exist. Moms would endure the abuse of the Dad so that thier child can have a father figure in the house. Mom/Dad would allow Mom/Dad to stay even though they have taken up drinking/drugs. Know what I'm saying here?

ALL CHILDREN BENEFIT FROM BOTH PARENTS!!!

Absolutely no argument there. In a typical, and again, idealistic, situation, one balances the other.

There are case study after case study that show the tremendous advantages to having both parents, living under the same roof & with the same surname, raise their child.

Having the same surname means nothing, unless you were speaking figuratively.


There is a reason behind this; moms provide a loving, nurturing, caring balance to the more often stoic, protective nature of fathers. ie-when they fall down & get a boo-boo, moms kiss it & make it better, dads pick them up, dust them off & say go do it again.

Here's where I pat myself on the back. I can do both. My Mom did both. My Dad did both. :)

So please, no more invoking heroism upon a group that doesn't deserve such.

A tad harsh, doncha think? I don't see the word heroism in here.... but I see admiration of a group who deserve it. There are those who don't deserve it, sure. But I see a person who has a hard working Mom who is raising her kids and a son who admires all her efforts. Kudos to you, baby!!!

Let us not judge those who we have not yet walked a mile in thier shoes.
 

Gonzo

Infinitesimally Outrageous
Staff member
Originally posted by Spirit


Whoa! Ease up, there. Are you not aware of the circumstance from which the admiration comes from?

There are no circumstances in which admiration is deserved.


Bothered? Gonz, it's not a matter of "bothering".

That's all it is-I defined single parent quite well-not divorced or widowed


In a typical, and again, idealistic, situation, one balances the other.
Shouldn't we strive for idealistic

Having the same surname means nothing, unless you were speaking figuratively.

Introducing Bobby Smiths parent as Ms Jones lacks cohesion in the childs life


Here's where I pat myself on the back. I can do both. My Mom did both. My Dad did both. :)

You can NEVER be a dad-there is a huge, fundamental difference

A tad harsh, doncha think?

Absolutely not, it's time for a spade to be called a spade


Let us not judge those who we have not yet walked a mile in thier shoes.
I am an adopted child who went through two divorces-I know from whence I speak. AND, I made a commitment to my childs mother before conception
 

Spirit

Kissy Goddess
Originally posted by fury
........What do you think has caused this totally natural process to become such a hush-hush topic, socially?

I think it goes in waves. There were times where it was so open and accepted, like in the Roman Empire. Then there was the harsh judgements from the Churches. Then we hit the free love era... and now we are faced with the disease era.

A lot of it has to do with education, or lack thereof. I don't think it's as simple as sexual harassment, however, in the work place, that is definitely one cause of the hush hush theory you speak of.

What we have now are many children who are experimenting with sex in a time where it can mean a lifetime of disease or a future of death. Sex has become a scary thing unless you know your mate and are tested. I think for the most part, we don't like to discuss the shitty things in life.... and sex, with it's newfound and rampant diseases, can be a shitty thing. So if we bury our heads in the sand... we won't get sick!!!!!!:smash:
 
S

s4

Guest
What we have now are many children who are experimenting with sex in a time where it can mean a lifetime of disease or a future of death. Sex has become a scary thing unless you know your mate and are tested. I think for the most part, we don't like to discuss the shitty things in life.... and sex, with it's newfound and rampant diseases, can be a shitty thing. So if we bury our heads in the sand... we won't get sick!!!!!!

Good point!
 

Gonzo

Infinitesimally Outrageous
Staff member
Regarding the hushed part, it isn't. There is more on sex than anytime in our history. The willingness to talk about it has never been greater. Look at any magazine, watch TV, listen to the radio, go on the net-sex is everywhere because it sells. Not a necessarily good thing. But, in a culture that values freedom, it is wonderful to have the opportunity to pass judgements, as opposed to it never being seen.

Sex has grown to a stature well above pure procreation. It's a topic that tantalizes the masses. It titillates the purveyor of it's secrets. I is unspeakable because we have put a shroud of mystery around it. Look at a magazine ad-she's beautiful, well toned, alluring to the point of godliness. And she's safe. We can't touch her, or even speak to her. Now, put that woman with her flaws & unpixelated physique in a grocery store & say penis-hmmm. An uncomfortable situation to say the least. Why? Because we are afraid of it. It moves mere mortals to the status of gods-we can create a life, then dictate where that life points. Pretty heady stuff for Bob the plumber or Janis the executive.

In hindsight, where all things become clear, maybe the "puritans" weren't so far off base. Granted, they were scary in their collective penchant for deciding the values of the masses, in all circumstances. But, they didn't have a teen pregnancy problem. It is a problem for us. (Between 1991-2000, the U.S. birth rate for teens aged 15-19 declined 21.6 percent to 48.7 births per 1000 teen girls in 1999, after reaching its highest point in two decades (62 births per 1000 teen girls aged 15-19 in 1991). The U.S. teen birth rate rate remains notably higher than the rates in other industrialized democracies.) It seesm that dad with his shotgun was better than a box of condoms.

The reasoning behind the judeo/christian "ban" on teen sex is simple. Teenagers have absolutely no idea how they can change their life with a single act. The morality I will leave to others-but the ethics are easily identified. The long term pyscholgical implications are unending-you cannot become a born-again virgin, no matter how hard you try. Most will have no problems, some experience remorse, many have anxiety(which is gods way of saying you have too much time on your hands), others develop depression & still others wonder if it was worth it at all. Then, as Spirit pointed out, there are innumerable STD's-some of which are an irritation only & one or two that can take your life. AND, there's more-how about embarrasement-*you slept with her?Laughs all around*, or abortion. There's a happy life long thought. And pregnancy-you are now the sole responsibility of another life-you have no life, except that which you provide your children. No senior prom, no graduation commencement, no college, no trip to Europe to thumb around, no going to the bar to celebrate turning 21, no orgies...damn, that would suck. My kid, at 8, knows that we will pay his way thru college (& grad school if we can afford it) but, the minute some girl says she is pregnant with his child, and it's proven thru paternity DNA tests-he's done getting cash from dear old dad. He wants to be a man & enjoy his penis & the things that happen with it, he can be a man & support all his habits & life, without our help.

Sex is a wonderful thing, no doubt. But with it comes awesome responsibilities. It's a choice you choose to take, you had better be prepared for the consequences. They are even more awesome.


I didn't use it, but here's a good rule of thumb-*if you're afraid to tell your dad what you did, it's probably the wrong thing to do.*
 

fury

Administrator
Staff member
Originally posted by Gonzo
Drop the "single parents are heroes" crap.

A single parent is one who never bothered to marry the other parent of their child. Yet they had the baby & decided it was better to raise said child alone, instead of marrying the other parent or giving them up for adoption to a 2 parent family. ALL CHILDREN BENEFIT FROM BOTH PARENTS!!! There are, of course, exceptions to this but don't make the exception the rule.
I never said they didn't. I simply admire the courage of single parents that choose to raise their child on their own instead of living with an abusive husband/boyfriend or giving the child up for adoption. I said nothing of whether the child would benefit or not with 2 parents. Some circumstances cannot be helped, however. If a family starts out as two parents and the child and one of the parents gets killed, is the remaining parent just supposed to throw up his/her hands, say "I give up", and send their child off for adoption?

There are case study after case study that show the tremendous advantages to having both parents, living under the same roof & with the same surname, raise their child. Sorry all you super-moms out there, no matter how wonderful you are, you are not a dad. and vice versa.
That is a given. No doubt about that.

There is a reason behind this; moms provide a loving, nurturing, caring balance to the more often stoic, protective nature of fathers. ie-when they fall down & get a boo-boo, moms kiss it & make it better, dads pick them up, dust them off & say go do it again.
What's to say one of the parents can't do both? Males aren't always uncaring, stiff pricks, ya know? ;)

So please, no more invoking heroism upon a group that doesn't deserve such. Save that for the parents who lost a spouse through no fault of their own.
Those people are the group I am mainly referring to when I say I admire them. It takes nerves of steel to go on and raise a child after the spouse dies/becomes an abusive alcoholic prick/bitch. There is very rarely, if at all, a situation where there is an idealistic family if you call the cast of "7th Heaven" an idealistic family, but each individual family is right, even perfect if you will, in its own way. You get what you're given. If you're given a father and no mother, so be it. If you're given a mother and no father, so be it. If you're given a mother and a father, so be it. That's what you get, and you just have to go with the flow.
 

Gonzo

Infinitesimally Outrageous
Staff member
Originally posted by fury
I simply admire the courage of single parents that choose to raise their child on their own instead of living with an abusive husband/boyfriend or giving the child up for adoption. If a family starts out as two parents and the child and one of the parents gets killed, is the remaining parent just supposed to throw up his/her hands, say "I give up", and send their child off for adoption?

Single parents are not the same as divorced or widowed-that's why I defined it as such. Abusive is soooooo overused today. I would bet that there is not one case of an abusive spouse who did not abuse BEFORE the conception, same with drugs/alcohol. So, why have a child with an asshole? On the other hand, life is a series of setbacks marked by forward momentum-if a spouse dies, it sucks. If a spouse leaves to be with the 22year old secretary, it's chickenshit ego gratification


What's to say one of the parents can't do both? Males aren't always uncaring, stiff pricks, ya know? ;)

I never implied that both parents can't do both, I said that we are biologically & psychologically different in our methods. I can NEVER be my sons mom-ever. I can do some of the things she does, but I cannot replace the feminine aspect. WE ARE DIFFERENT, no matter what the schools teach today

We have become a society that says "I cannot judge". Bullshit. We judge every single day of your life. It's a learned & a response behaviour. I'm sick of the psycho-babble mentality that goes on in this country. It is not okay to put your kids in daycare. It is not okay to have sex outside of marriage. It is not okay to step on the backs of others climbing the corporate ladder. Life is not just about the individual. We are a whole as well as a singular.
 

Spirit

Kissy Goddess
Originally posted by Gonzo

We have become a society that says "I cannot judge". Bullshit.
We judge every single day of your life. It's a learned & a response behaviour. I'm sick of the psycho-babble mentality that goes on in this country. It is not okay to put your kids in daycare. It is not okay to have sex outside of marriage. It is not okay to step on the backs of others climbing the corporate ladder. Life is not just about the individual. We are a whole as well as a singular.

We do judge every day. That doesn't make it right. I think that when we start to point our fingers and call people out for what we think they are, or for the wrong doings we think they are doing in/with thier lives, then we DO have the right to say, "you can not judge..." unless, we, ourselves, have gone through what they have/are going through to put them where they are.

There is no psycho-babble mentality. Just a huge amount of people who won't take RESPONSIBILITY.
 
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